Storytelling: Turning Data into Decisions

We hit our 10th episode by tackling two big tensions in health communication: AI’s fingerprints on our writing and images, and the real work of turning data into stories that lead to decisions. We end with a thoughtful look at trauma‑informed storytelling and a few fun extras for our listeners.

• em dashes and other AI tells
• what storytelling means beyond personal anecdotes
• how to turn data into decisions with “so what”
• a lightning talk example that finds the real message
• ethics of lived experience and long‑term consent
• two new coloring books!

Communications Breakdown coloring book: https://www.cirtc.org/communications-breakdown

Nano Banana Pro: https://gemini.google/overview/image-generation/

Nancy Duarte post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nancyduarte_datastorytelling-communicationskills-leadershipcommunication-activity-7396941884478218240-GoNK

Steve Burns clip: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QIzjHSL5Lo8

Gaping Void: https://www.gapingvoid.com/want-to-know-how-to-turn-change-into-a-movement/ 

Jamila Porter's new book: https://debeaumont.org/books/strategic-skills-for-public-health-practice-advancing-equity-and-justice/

Media Institute: https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/research/areas-of-research/center-for-injury-research-and-policy/education-and-training/media-101-workshop 

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This podcast is a project of the Center for Injury Research Translation and Communication (CIRTC). Connect with CIRTC: www.cirtc.org

Find CIRTC on LinkedIn, Bluesky, and YouTube.

Note: all thoughts and opinions shared in this podcast are personal and not representative of any organization.

Chapters

• 0:53 Em Dash Controversy
• 7:22 What Storytelling Really Means
• 10:55 Data Isn’t The Story
• 16:03 Finding The “So What” In Research
• 20:56 Trauma-Informed Use Of Personal Stories
• 26:04 Coloring Books
• 28:30 Training Announcements And How To Join

Transcript

Tracy Mehan: 00:10
Welcome to Communications Breakdown, where we break down what works and doesn't in health and science communications. I'm Tracy Mehan 

Katrina Boylan: 00:19
and I'm Katrina Boylan. You know, we cannot believe it, but it is our 10th episode. And we spent a long time getting ready to launch. So to already be at 10 episodes, I will say feels terrific. And we're just so grateful to have you all listening along.

Tracy Mehan: 00:40
I agree. I'm super excited about hitting this milestone. And you guys are giving us some good feedback and telling us that you're really getting something from this. So we're gonna keep it going.

Katrina Boylan: 00:51
Yep, absolutely. And so with no further ado, let's get going. Now, our first topic today all started with an em dash. And on a team like ours, we take punctuation very seriously. And so last week I was writing a caption for Instagram, and I had a reaction when I went to use an em dash. And I will say the em dash has been my longtime favorite punctuation mark because it's just so useful. And Tracy and I, we've found, tend to speak in em dashes. We've both edited the transcripts of this podcast. And so the em dash is a critical part of that editing process. But now, if I see an em dash, I now suspect that it was written by ChatGPT. And I didn't want people to think that when I was writing this caption that I had used AI for it, when in fact I had written it myself. And so I had to sit there and weigh whether to use an em dash here at all. And I did because, you know, as so often is the case, it was the right piece of punctuation for my needs. Um, but honestly, I was just a little sad and and disappointed that ChatGPT has now kind of sullied the em dash's reputation to the point that I'm hesitating to use it.

Tracy Mehan: 02:25
I agree. I'm super frustrated that we can't use the em dash without people thinking we're using AI. It is something, as you said, that you and I both use a lot. Uh, so we wanted to bring it up because, you know, I had seen recently that OpenAI is actually aware that ChatGPT may overuse em dashes. And they actually announced recently that they're training the next model to have fewer em dashes. So a fix is coming, but we wanted to bring it up because we just wanted people to think about it for a minute. There are tells like the em dash and using a lot of emojis and things like that that are signals that make it pretty easy to tell if something is written by AI if you use it at all. So if you're using generative AI to write or create content and not modifying it at all, know that people likely know that you are using AI, which can be fine and is great in some instances, but it's just something to think about and be aware of.

Katrina Boylan: 03:21
Yeah, you know, it's not saying that I, I'm not using AI for certain things and I do tend to edit it a little bit, but yeah, I can spot an AI written post almost immediately now. Right. I'm gonna be interested to see what ChatGPT is gonna do to maybe provide some variety so everything's not quite so formulaic, because I do think that would help. Um, it's one reason I don't use it, is because it's so, it's, it's, it's so standardized at this point. 

Katrina Boylan: 03:54
There is one area though that I am not sure I completely mind if people know that I'm using AI, and that's image generation. And so we work in injury and violence prevention, and we often don't have the photos or the images, the imagery we need to do our jobs. And so, because we have a limited set of photos available to us, and we don't have the funds to go out and and do photo shoots for the, you know, all of the messaging that we do, this is where I will go back to AI. 

Katrina Boylan: 04:30
And so just recently, Google has launched a new image generation product. It's called Nano Banana Pro. Not gonna screw that one up, ever. And I re- I saw it, the way I was exposed to it is that I saw on LinkedIn, somebody had created a whiteboard style summary of a paper that they'd taken straight from the New England Journal of Medicine. And honestly, it looked really good. The text was, it was not only correct, but it was rendered clearly as well. That's something we've had problems with in the past. It was organized, you know, it had some design. It was it was pretty, pretty good. 

Katrina Boylan: 05:12
And so I went over to test this out on some of the things that we've tried in the past and in Chat GPT, for instance. And I didn't go that far because it was just me testing, but I tested what this product can do for fireplace safety. Uh, so I used the prompt of "create a photo of a lower-income living room with modest furniture with a fireplace surrounded by safety gates," and just saw what it generated. And then I also ran a prompt on medication safety asking it to create a lockable medicine cabinet and a bathroom that is open slightly to show the medication bottles inside. And in both cases, especially in the fireplace one, a totally usable product. 

Katrina Boylan: 05:59
Now it's clearly generated by AI, or at least I can tell. And I think I think a lot of other people can, although it's becoming clear that not everybody can always tell what's AI generated and not. But for this issue, I'm not sure I care because the point is to illustrate the safety message. And if I don't have the imagery at all, uh, you know, it really does help us out to be able to create it. The imagery, you know, always is kind of the entry point to the message of the campaigns that we're creating or wherever we're using this. And so to not have the correct imagery kind of just, you know, hobbles us right from the start.

Tracy Mehan: 06:45
Yeah, I think that's the perfect example of a great use for AI. And I love watching how far these programs are coming. It really can make a difference. And they're actually getting good enough, like you said, that we can really start to use them now. And I think that's gonna be a powerful use for public health. 

Tracy Mehan: 07:05
You know, we do use imagery to help people relate to the topics that we're talking about all the time. And I think that concept of finding ways to help people connect with our messaging is gonna lead us nicely into this next thing that we wanted to talk about. 

Tracy Mehan: 07:23
Just like our last episode, we both had several moments over the past week where the same topic kept popping up. And now, whenever that happens, we take it as a sign of, oh, this is something we should probably talk about on the podcast. Yep. Especially when it's a topic that we have been thinking about covering here for a while. This week, that topic for us was storytelling. 

Tracy Mehan: 07:47
Storytelling is one of those words that people use all the time, but we don't always mean the same thing when we say it. A lot of people, I think, when they think storytelling, it they think it means literally telling someone's personal story. And, you know, sometimes that is it. That's, you know, the thing we're talking about. Real stories about something happening can have a real impact. And we use them all the time. But storytelling is also about helping your audience see the larger picture around an issue. It's taking data or systems and the whole "what's going on here" and weaving it into something that people can understand and relate to. And sometimes that piece gets missed. 

Tracy Mehan: 08:32
We totally acknowledge that personal experience stories can be a powerful part of what we do in public health and especially in injury prevention. We don't always have those stories, though. People can be reluctant to share, they might carry guilt around what happened, or we just don't have access to a lived experience from somebody. So, what do we do with that? What do we do when we don't have a personal story? We have to go and look at the data and the information.

Katrina Boylan: 09:03
Yeah. And I think that one is actually an important thing to repeat here. We look at the data and information, but the data itself is not the message or the story. You know, I think a lot of researchers and scientists think that the data is the story, but data by itself is kind of inert. You know, it needs another dimension to bring it to life. And that's where the story comes in. 

Katrina Boylan: 09:30
You know, I saw something the other day on LinkedIn, and I apologize, I'm gonna screw up this name. I think her name is Nancy. It's I don't know if it's Duarte or Du- Duarte, but you know, and I'll share a link to this post in the show notes, but she posted something about why businesses have tons of data, but they still struggle to make improvements. And this is what she said: "They're struggling because nobody can turn that data into decisions." And that's why data is not the story or the message. Data is not a decision. Decisions are made as part of a larger story. You know, how does the data fit into that larger story? And those elements of story will give your data dimension and context that allows people to turn that data into a decision for their own lives. 

Katrina Boylan: 10:28
And I will say the other benefit of story is attention. Story tells us why stuff happens in an interesting way. Um, I follow Steve Burns from Blues Clues on Instagram, and he just posted something recently with one of the guys from Mythbusters about why memes spread and actually also why the show was fun to make. And the guy from Mythbusters said that people love hearing a great story about why stuff happens, and we, as consumers, we want the most interesting version of that story. And so Mythbusters used those factors to get people's attention, but then it approached, you know, the myth in this case in a way that people actually learn something too. And I will be honest, I had not thought about Mythbusters as SciComm until I saw that clip. But it is, and it's really good SciComm, precisely because it knows how to connect the data to the larger story in a way that the audience can both enjoy and understand.

Tracy Mehan: 11:43
Yeah, I, we love that show in our house. And part of it is because it's clear they're having fun too, right? Yeah. And they are fantastic storytellers. So great, great example. 

Tracy Mehan: 11:56
Uh, you made me think of another kind of image that you and I use all the time. We've been using it for years, and it came from Gaping Void. Again, we'll put the link in the show notes. They actually have a really nice cartoon that I think illustrates this kind of concept of turning data into a story pretty well. Um, it shows the difference between data and actual understanding in the six-panel grid. 

Tracy Mehan: 12:26
The first panel is labeled data, and it's just a bunch of dots scattered everywhere. There's no pattern, no meaning, you know, hard to tell what's going on. And then as you move through each of the next panels, you watch those dots start to get grouped together, they get connected, paths get highlighted, and then eventually it turns into something that creates real-world impact. And for me, I always use this when I'm trying to describe what that looks like. And I think it's a good reminder that data alone isn't the story. Our job is to help people look at that data and see the connections, know which connections matter and maybe which ones don't, and then see what it all means and why they should care about this. So it is turning that data dot into something useful.

Katrina Boylan: 13:19
Yeah. And actually, this is my favorite part of this job is the challenge of that. You know, the it's not going to look the same all the time. And so one of the questions we get a lot is okay, great. How do I do that? How do I find the story in the data? 

Katrina Boylan: 13:38
And, you know, going back to something we talk about all the time, your audience will matter, of course. So the story and the data might be different depending on who you're trying to reach. If we're doing something for parents and the public, again, I might be trying to link that data into decision making. How can we help them with a decision they might face in their lives? And I think in the previous episode, I talked a little bit about how we did that with our ATV messaging. And so if you didn't listen to that episode, definitely go check that out because I think that'll help clarify what I'm talking about here. 

Katrina Boylan: 14:10
But, you know, we're in academia, or we're in research. And so, you know, a lot of people we work with are going to academic conferences. And so it might be turning your data into an engaging talk to share information. You know, sometimes it might be decision-making for your audience, but for an academic audience, it's more likely, you know, what kind of methods, info, you know, sharing that kind of thing, which is a different goal. 

Katrina Boylan: 14:36
And so, you know, either way, if you work with us long enough, you're gonna hear us ask one question, and that is, so what? And as we have seen live, this can be incredibly jarring at first, especially for, you know, I think a lot of researchers and scientists might think it's obvious what the "so what" is, why people should care. But for us as health communicators, this question is incredibly clarifying. And the answers to that question and the follow-up can help us pull on threads until we can see why the audience should care that, you know, this work is being done and, and, and what they need to hear in order to stay engaged with your content. And so data is still going to be data-oriented in this case, but the story will bring your data to life. And so it will tell people where you're going in a way with whatever you're talking about. It gives them a destination so that they can follow along that route with you. You know, give them the vision that you're working toward. 

Katrina Boylan: 15:44
And the example that I think exemplifies this the best is uh this was years ago when lightning talks or kind of those three-minute short talks got popular. And one of our colleagues was selected for a lightning talk. And she got very few guidelines on what exactly that meant. And so she was across the aisle from me. She turned around and said, Hey, you know, can you help me with this? And I'm like, Could I? You know, it's only pretty much my favorite thing to do. I love working with people to find the story in their data. And so we ran over to a conference room and she gave me her talk, which was just, you know, based the basic um research talk, I guess, condensed into kind of three minutes. 

Katrina Boylan: 16:30
And so when she finished, I was like, "Great, so what?" And she said, "Well, you know, this new method will allow us to combine these data sets that have never been combined before." And I was like, "Okay, so what?" "Well, then we can see where injuries occur to backseat occupants and T-bone crashes." "Okay, so what?" "Well, you know, we need to know who might be hurt in different types of crashes." "Okay, so what?" "Well, because someday we'll have autonomous ambulances. And so we need to know how to design the algorithm to predict which crashes will need those ambulances and prioritize them if there are multiple crashes." 

Katrina Boylan: 17:14
There it is. That's the story. "We're working on the algorithms for autonomous ambulances so that when there are multiple crashes, we'll know who needs help first." That's awesome. That's a way better story than "we're combining novel data sets." You know, you need as a scientist, you need to show that, right? Of course, you've got to back your stuff up with data, but the data is not the message. The message is: we're preparing for this thing that's coming in a way that will will hopefully benefit society. And so that's why we care. It's gonna help people survive car crashes. You know, that's the story there.

Tracy Mehan: 17:58
You know, Katrina, I love that story because scientists and researchers will tell us all the time, well, I'm gonna be in an academic conference. People will just know, they'll understand why we're doing this. And I have to remind them, not everybody is in the exact same space as you are. Even if you're at an injury prevention conference, there are a million different kinds of injuries. So, no, people might not know just by looking at your data exactly why that matters. And when you took her all the way down that path, it helped get to the real story. And that helped her in all kinds of ways when she was talking about this. So I love that. 

Tracy Mehan: 18:40
Okay, before we end this discussion, I do want to circle back to the personal stories for just a minute. I—we love stories and we know how powerful they can be. I—they can humanize data, they can make risk feel real, and importantly, they can make people see themselves in the message, which is really important. But I do want to say there is a time and a place to use these personal stories, and we do it ourselves all the time. For me, the deciding factor on whether or not to use a story is the purpose. If a story helps people understand the lived experience behind an injury, what it felt like, what led up to it, and importantly, what changed afterwards, that can be a meaningful bridge between the science and the audience. Real stories, without a doubt, can create that emotional connection that a statistic just can't give you. They help you feel why the data matters. 

Tracy Mehan: 19:41
But there are also times when stories should not be the center of the message. And that's when sometimes the topic is too sensitive, or sharing the story could unintentionally re-traumatize somebody, or it can even put pressure on families to relive something painful for the sake of a campaign. 

Tracy Mehan: 20:03
And what really got me thinking about this is I attended a workshop last week where the speaker was talking about trauma-informed storytelling, and it really changed the way that I think about stories. And I cannot remember the speaker's name. If we remember, we'll put it in the show notes. So I apologize if you are the speaker. But listening to her really impacted me. 

Tracy Mehan: 20:29
And so she had us envision this scenario. So she said, imagine someone went through something pretty bad in their teenage years and they have started working with you as a nonprofit. And the leader, the nonprofit, asks them to share their story. And the teen agrees because the program has really helped them and they feel like their story might help somebody else. So they agree. But there is also this component, maybe, that they feel like they should, and I'm saying should in quotes here, because the leader asked them to do it, right? 

Tracy Mehan: 21:07
Then the speaker had us think through now, now go forward five years. How's that former teenager gonna feel if that same story gets told five years later? Are they still gonna be okay with it being shared? What about 10 years later? What about once they have children? The way the media is today and social media, once you tell a story, it can live on digitally for years. It doesn't go away. So thinking about will that person want that story out there for years? And maybe in places where they can't control the narrative or when it is being told. 

Tracy Mehan: 21:49
And it really made me stop and sit for a minute and really shifted how I think about long-term consent and agency in storytelling. And it got me thinking: stories aren't just content, they're real people. And we need to be thoughtful and purposeful when deciding whether or not to use them. And we really need to think about the long-term impact to the person whose story we're telling. And I don't know that we always do that, right? 

Tracy Mehan: 22:23
Stories, they can add clarity, they can add humanity. As I said before, they can have somebody potentially see themselves in that situation, and all of that can be great and really powerful. But if it feels like the story is having us use someone's pain to make a point, and if we don't think they might be comfortable with that story being out there forever or in a few years, that might be our cue to step back and think about whether or not we should be really using that. So when we do use stories, we just need to be thoughtful about how we tell them. We need to make sure the family or the person is really ready, that they fully understand how the story is going to be used and that it may live out there forever. And that they have agency in how the story is being told. 

Tracy Mehan: 23:26
So, yes, there is a time and a place for real stories, but we shouldn't just include them for the sake of including them. We need to make sure that we give them the same care and intention that we bring to every other part of our work.

Katrina Boylan: 23:42
Yeah, I   totally agree. I also really the uh—same thing with you, it got me thinking when you shared this with me about it's almost an easy way out, I think, in some ways to to lean on that, um, as you said, that the using the pain to make a point. And so as a health communicator, I realized that this is actually one of the challenges, again, that I most I enjoy this aspect is, how can I tell this story in a way that is is human-centered, but as you said, not using somebody's pain. How can we make it empowering? How can we make it aspirational? How can we make it something that people feel like, "I can do this."? 

Katrina Boylan: 24:25
And I think you and I agree that that narrative story is is one of the most powerful forces in in the world. And I just, I love finding ways to use those stories to make people's lives better. But again, what a great point about the long-term impacts of sharing those personal stories, especially in an age of social media when, you know, you might this might have been years ago, but somebody kind of drags something up again and all of a sudden, you know, your names are in the, your name is in the comments or something. And yeah, injury and violence prevention, I think, is a a unique lens on that as well. Um, but it is it's part of our everyday job.

Tracy Mehan: 25:07
So yeah, and just one more point on that. For some people, it is actually important and helps them process to be able to share that story. So I don't want to take that away. And there is a huge amount of power. I have gotten chills, I've gotten teary when I hear stories that families share with me, but I also see the power in them wanting to make a difference. So there absolutely is a place. I just think it's just really important for us to think about long-term interest.

Katrina Boylan: 25:38
Sure, sure. And I think you mentioned earlier in this episode something about that lived experience, and that's what it is, right? Is that some of the best communicators are the ones who have lived these experiences. But helping them understand what they're getting into is going to be part of our jobs then, too. So yeah, for sure. 

Katrina Boylan: 25:56
All right. Well, before we go, uh the last thing that we wanted to mention was that we saw that Dr. Jamila Porter, who is chief of staff at the De Beaumont Foundation, has a new book out. And it is called "Strategic Skills for Public Health Practice, Advancing Equity and Justice." And so not only is this a huge achievement for her and her co-author, so congratulations on that to you, but this is super cool. Her co-author's sister did illustrations for the book, and they did this awesome coloring book as a fun extra to kind of help bring the concepts in the book to life. And so, of course, we'll put a link to that uh to the book page in the show notes, and you can get the coloring book there too. But I will say this was somewhat hilarious to see because, well, Tracy here will explain.

Tracy Mehan: 26:57
Yeah, when we saw her stunning, beautifully illustrated coloring book, I did have a little bit of a moment because we've been quietly holding on to our coloring book for a couple of weeks now because we wanted to have a special extra for our listeners to celebrate our 10th episode. And our team, we love coloring books and thought that releasing one would be a fun way to share some of the lessons we've learned and laughed at since we started this podcast. So, yes, we were excited for her, but a little tiny bit bummed when hers came out first and looked so amazing. Yep. Right? But we decided to embrace the fact that great mind's think alike, and it's clearly a coloring book season in public health, and we're fully committed to this trend. 

Tracy Mehan: 27:48
So look, ours is not fancy. I am not a graphic designer, and you will definitely be able to tell that. But it is filled with our personality, has some behind-the-scenes lessons and more than one scenario that's gonna make you laugh. We think it's hilarious, and we hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoyed making it. With that, you can grab our coloring book from the link in the show notes or by going to the CIRTC website that is C-I-R-T-C.org and clicking on the Communications Breakdown tab and looking under the resources box. 

Tracy Mehan: 28:24
Okay, before we end this episode, we wanted to share a training opportunity that we have coming up. We are hosting the Center for Injury Research and Policy, or CIRP Media and Social Media Institute. And there are two separate trainings that we have available. The first is a two-part series on working with traditional media that is $99 and takes place over two days, January 22nd and 29th. And then we also have a workshop on best practices for social media for public health professionals on February 5th, which is $49. Each training day is a four-hour interactive virtual session on Zoom. And I know, I know that sounds like it's really long, but we give you breaks and we make it fun. And these are always some of our favorite sessions to teach. And they are the topics that we get asked about the most, or at least a lot, we get asked to share our experiences with this. And we would love to do that. So come hang out with us, learn some along the way. We do you want to give you the heads up that we have a seat limit. So if you're interested, sign up now. And we will put the link in the show notes, and we will also have a link on the CIRTC social media channels. We're on LinkedIn and Blue Sky as CIRTC, which is C I R T C.

Katrina Boylan: 29:51
All right. Well, that is it for this episode. And as always, please follow this podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, wherever you're listening to it, so that you're notified when we post new episodes. We are sharing these over on YouTube as well. So you can subscribe there if you prefer. You can just search for Communications Breakdown. Things like follows, comments, likes if you're on YouTube all really do help us expand our reach. And genuinely, we we just appreciate all the support.

Tracy Mehan: 30:26
Yep, I agree. All right. Thanks for listening until next time.